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Round 1 - EM Debate

Maldito
about 8 years

Welcome to Epicmafia's First Debate Competition!

Your wonderful judges for this competition will be Mindful, Denial, and Jeff.

There will be 7 questions over the course of the competition, but not every team will make it to answer all 7!

Here's how it will work:

The first 3 rounds will essentially be a free for all mass debate chaos. Teams will be given a timeline of when their cases are to submitted to a judge, when the cases will be posted in the round thread, and how long they will have to debate within the thread. Once all cases have been submitted, myself, Denial, and Mindful will post the cases in the thread and give everyone an hour before the thread will be unlocked. Once the thread is unlocked it will be your job for the next 24 hours to comment on the other cases. You can use this time to attack other cases, point out flaws in them, defend your own case from other's attacks, and overall just debate the topic. After 24 hours, the thread will be locked and you will all be given 2 rest days before another question will be given. During these rest days the 3 judges will read the thread and assign every team a score of 1-10 based off how well their case was, how well they defended it, and how well they attacked the opposing stance.

This will happen for 3 rounds.

After 3 rounds, every team will be given a ranking. Teams will be ranked 1-10. The top 6 teams automatically move on to the final 8 and the other 4 teams will face off in a 1 vs 1 PLAY IN battle (7th vs 10th, 8th vs 9th) to see which two also will advance to the final 8.

Once the final 8 is reached, teams will be placed in a bracket and face off in a knock out style 1 vs 1 battle (1 vs Lower Ranked Play-in advancer, 2 vs Higher Ranked Play-in advancer, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5)

One team will emerge victorious from the bracket and be named Epicmafia's Greatest Debate Team!

http://pastebin.com/SCFgmCpg Rutab & xJuicy

http://pastebin.com/812SHLbC Tatami and Sincerely

http://pastebin.com/ibsV9Hkc Poser and Tartosis

http://pastebin.com/sjTU6sJt Stiffy&schutz

http://pastebin.com/VXED8hDe Arcbel and thecolonel

http://pastebin.com/jsJzvasJ Pamda and Xero

http://pastebin.com/EJM4yyc1 Blister and SweetnKind

http://pastebin.com/gKmvDkHN Bebop and Ponylove

http://pastebin.com/Q9gS842E Jack and Sims

3 TEAMS STILL HAVEN'T TURNED IN AND THEY WILL BE KEPT MUTED UNTIL THEY SUBMIT A SUBMISSION

schutzekatze
about 8 years

Rutab says


schutzekatze says

You're making catfishing look worse than it is. There's a lot of dishonesty in this thread, let alone on the site. And there's no rule against dishonesty.

His catfishing had no consequences, so making it look as horrible is an exaggeration. What matters are concrete things he has done, not what he could've done, and he has done a lot of positive things.


You're correct that there were no direct consequences because of his catfishing, but it overall effected the way people perceived them. Why should anyone trust what Vilden says anymore after the complete and utter lie that was lived for so long? A lot of people lost his trust.



cow says


The "concrete" things he has done are bad too. He is blatantly hateful and breaks a lot of in-game rules, which obviously doesn't make him the model community member.



Again, that's not what he was banned for. Catfishing was benign here.
Arcbell
about 8 years

Even Eris couldn't think of a reason vilden should stay banned. And this is freaking Eris we're talking about.
Arcbell
about 8 years

thecolonel says

Reminder that three teams of people given 24 hours each couldn't think of any reasons to keep vilden banned


They needed a freaking think tank to scrape together a reason to keep him banned.
Rutab
about 8 years

schutzekatze says

You're making catfishing look worse than it is. There's a lot of dishonesty in this thread, let alone on the site. And there's no rule against dishonesty.

His catfishing had no consequences, so making it look as horrible is an exaggeration. What matters are concrete things he has done, not what he could've done, and he has done a lot of positive things.


You're correct that there were no direct consequences because of his catfishing, but it overall effected the way people perceived them. Why should anyone trust what Vilden says anymore after the complete and utter lie that was lived for so long? A lot of people lost his trust.

The "concrete" things he has done are bad too. He is blatantly hateful and breaks a lot of in-game rules, which obviously doesn't make him the model community member.


schutzekatze says


Rutab says

I highly disagree that his dishonesty does't matter.


This is also a subjective view from you. His dishonesty isn't relevant, we're talking about his actions which we can discuss more objectively and see whether they're as bad as initially perceived by mods.


Of course it's a subjective view. Isn't all of this that we're debating subjective? Besides the fact that we were given a stance on this issue rather than choosing it, I don't see how anything can be completely objective unless we just stated everything he did without any additional input.

His actions and dishonesty are both completely relevant in this debate.
thecolonel
about 8 years
Reminder that three teams of people given 24 hours each couldn't think of any reasons to keep vilden banned
schutzekatze
about 8 years

Rutab says

I highly disagree that his dishonesty does't matter.


This is also a subjective view from you. His dishonesty isn't relevant, we're talking about his actions which we can discuss more objectively and see whether they're as bad as initially perceived by mods.
schutzekatze
about 8 years
You're making catfishing look worse than it is. There's a lot of dishonesty in this thread, let alone on the site. And there's no rule against dishonesty.

His catfishing had no consequences, so making it look as horrible is an exaggeration. What matters are concrete things he has done, not what he could've done, and he has done a lot of positive things.
Rutab
about 8 years
I highly disagree that his dishonesty does't matter.

When anyone argues for his unbanning, what reason would they have to believe he's changed, or willing to change?

He hasn't always been the most honest or great person on this website, and, again, even after the other leashes he's received, he still hasn't changed.

He's been dishonest on many fronts, and the catfishing is one of the worst.
schutzekatze
about 8 years

poser says

https://epicmafia.com/report/192133

Not excessive at all. He probably called his mafia team the R word twice probably ONCE in this game out of frustration. Surprise, golden hearts angers people. Mafia in general angers people. Everyone on this site is a damn nutter. Vilden is a diamond in the rough among these crazy people because he's a winner. The appeal - people (such as denial) say it's not excessive, even Edark does. Yet he says that he believes Vilden needs to learn he can't get away with this stuff. Bias? Yes. Because looking at it a perspective of "Is it excessive?" is the correct way to view it. Perhaps the previous lenience fueled that verdict, nonetheless the actual violation is NOT good enough to withstand if he was just any other user - thus, bias. Another violation. So then he should only have 4 violations, one including bypassing which he wouldn't have had to do if he was freed. So where is your god now?


More or less first point of my thesis.


Rutab&Juicer says

Whether harmless or not, this is a testament to his dishonest, underhand, and generally negative impact upon the community. In other instances catfishing can result in serious consequences emotionally, financially, and physically. Whilst this ruse did not fulfill these potentials, it certainly could have if allowed to continue.


How does his dishonesty matter here? It was him messing around for which there's no explicit rule against. And this being internet, he can have any persona he wants to.
His catfishing did not produce any negative consequences so saying that it "could've been bad" is not an argument, it's just speculation to come up with something against vilden.
Maldito
about 8 years
Bebop and Ponylove submitted their submission. They're now unmuted!

Here's the pastebin
http://pastebin.com/gKmvDkHN
Rutab
about 8 years

Stiffy says

Vilden is being excluded from something he wants to be a part of while others involved in the drama are still here. It's understandable that he would see that as unfair and lash out. His suspension bypassing and harassing accounts are a byproduct of being singled out as the only wrong-doer and being excluded from the site he enjoys. When someone is already punished to the full extent, there are no more rules to be broken, so Vilden is acting out and you can't compare how one acts in a rule-less situation to how they would act if pardoned. I think that if his ban was actually lifted and as long as he can avoid others instigating drama he will do okay.


Well, I understand what you're saying, but you also fail to remember that Vilden has already been given chances with leashes. He still ended up committing the same kind of violations while on that leash. Being unbanned and watched closely does not always work, and he is the perfect example to support that.

You're also correct that drama including him is still relevant around here, but even so, no one else broke the rules like he did. His was to such an extent that he was the only one who was banned. It doesn't matter how badly he wants to be apart of something.

If he really, truly wanted to be part of EpicMafia still, he would follow the rules and behave.
Stiffy
about 8 years
Vilden is being excluded from something he wants to be a part of while others involved in the drama are still here. It's understandable that he would see that as unfair and lash out. His suspension bypassing and harassing accounts are a byproduct of being singled out as the only wrong-doer and being excluded from the site he enjoys. When someone is already punished to the full extent, there are no more rules to be broken, so Vilden is acting out and you can't compare how one acts in a rule-less situation to how they would act if pardoned. I think that if his ban was actually lifted and as long as he can avoid others instigating drama he will do okay.
IAmNotABC
about 8 years
Forum ban is always an option untill he fixes his ways. Unban Vilden and give him undefinite forum ban.
IAmNotABC
about 8 years
Vilden is from USA. In USA the people have right to speak. There are open religious groups that are against gay's and call them "abominations" They hunt them down and even kill them "recently there was a shooting in a bar".


All vilden did was curse, and probably becaise he grew up in religious environment or racist household. Whatever the truth is, All vilden did was curse at them. He just can't help himself, but it was already stated that he is helpfull toward homeless and not that bad irl. So just give him a chance and unban him! Vildenis not a bad person. He is just homophobic. And being homophobic is no crime.
deletedabout 8 years
Point out one case of someone not taking this seriously? The only one i see here not debating is u. But what else could we expect from someone wanting vilden to be unbanned.

This is irrefutable proof that all of his supporters are trolls
IAmNotABC
about 8 years
The trolling in this thread is too much >.>
poser
about 8 years
There is no harm in engaging in sexual activity with people who have no homes. The only harm would be lack of consent, Vilden didn't give consent to the admins to site ban him so whatever
deletedabout 8 years
Straight from the horses mouth notorious truth teller arcbell has just confirmed Vilden indeed sodomizes and preys on old fragile men. Is this closet shame the reason Vilden felt the need to out jeff and dyls union? Yea. It is
Arcbell
about 8 years
I just emailed lucid and told him about vilden's story.

He says he's ashamed of you all who try to keep a man like that down, for petty reasons. He doesn't wanna see another word spoken or finger lifted against this great American hero.
poser
about 8 years
https://epicmafia.com/report/192133

Not excessive at all. He probably called his mafia team the R word twice probably ONCE in this game out of frustration. Surprise, golden hearts angers people. Mafia in general angers people. Everyone on this site is a damn nutter. Vilden is a diamond in the rough among these crazy people because he's a winner. The appeal - people (such as denial) say it's not excessive, even Edark does. Yet he says that he believes Vilden needs to learn he can't get away with this stuff. Bias? Yes. Because looking at it a perspective of "Is it excessive?" is the correct way to view it. Perhaps the previous lenience fueled that verdict, nonetheless the actual violation is NOT good enough to withstand if he was just any other user - thus, bias. Another violation. So then he should only have 4 violations, one including bypassing which he wouldn't have had to do if he was freed. So where is your god now?
Arcbell
about 8 years
Vilden has told me stories about the kinds of people he takes in. Many of them are old, fragile men. Sometimes war vets who don't have anything to come back to.

If by "sodomizes and preys" you mean listens to their stories and reminds them that they're great men society has screwed over, then yes vilden does that.
deletedabout 8 years
Your "hot meal" double entendre was disgusting and crossing a line
deletedabout 8 years
Vilden sodomizes and preys on the homeless
Arcbell
about 8 years
Alright guys time to come in with the coup de grace to this petty "keep vilden banned" movement.

Did you guys know that in real life, vilden is a vigilante social worker of sorts. He goes out onto the streets of LA, finds homeless people of all ages, takes them into his house, gives them a hot meal, then (and this is the most impressive part) GOES OUT AND NEGOTIATES JOBS FOR THEM .. he literally lets the homeless person stay at his house until he has found them a job that they can do that can keep them out of the situation they're in. Of course not all of the people vilden invites into his home take advantage of his kindness, because vilden does not offer drugs or alcohol to those he takes in. It's kind of tough love but that's the kind of guy vilden is. Tough love.

How does vilden sustain such a charitable 'hobby' without becoming bitter and reverting to his old ways of partying and drinking? He takes it out by coming onto epicmafia and calling people f words. He told me it really helps relieve the tension and all the ingratitude he gets for his COMPLETELY SELFLESS actions every day.

Unban.. this man.
poser
about 8 years
https://epicmafia.com/report/187030

Example 1: Saying the F word ONCE and getting HC for it, which is still a violation he has today. Comments are not so great, he says it again (two times, not excessive) and yet I believe this type of behavior would NOT get HC this would get a note for *harassment* because it is targeted behavior not just "hateful comments".

https://epicmafia.com/report/192276 One slur, gets HC for it. This to me doesn't read as HC, this is a future harassment case to build against someone. Again, far too harsh on someone because you see them as a user filled with venom when that's not the case.

https://epicmafia.com/report/192529 Bias against Vilden again. Someone felt the need to report on Forrests behalf, which makes absolutely NO sense. It is up to Forrest, the user being insulted, to take necessary steps for this. But of course we allow Slow, the ultimately great and inoffensive user to make it his job and file a report against Vilden for HC when he is not involved. Overstepping much? Was OT'd by admin, nonetheless biased.

So then if there are two violations active that are NOT going to withstand the heat if they were refiled today, what is the point of him being banned due to "8 violations" or however many HC he has. And no, he doesn't have 8 vios anymore. He has seven. Two of which are BS.