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Round 1 - EM Debate

Maldito
about 8 years

Welcome to Epicmafia's First Debate Competition!

Your wonderful judges for this competition will be Mindful, Denial, and Jeff.

There will be 7 questions over the course of the competition, but not every team will make it to answer all 7!

Here's how it will work:

The first 3 rounds will essentially be a free for all mass debate chaos. Teams will be given a timeline of when their cases are to submitted to a judge, when the cases will be posted in the round thread, and how long they will have to debate within the thread. Once all cases have been submitted, myself, Denial, and Mindful will post the cases in the thread and give everyone an hour before the thread will be unlocked. Once the thread is unlocked it will be your job for the next 24 hours to comment on the other cases. You can use this time to attack other cases, point out flaws in them, defend your own case from other's attacks, and overall just debate the topic. After 24 hours, the thread will be locked and you will all be given 2 rest days before another question will be given. During these rest days the 3 judges will read the thread and assign every team a score of 1-10 based off how well their case was, how well they defended it, and how well they attacked the opposing stance.

This will happen for 3 rounds.

After 3 rounds, every team will be given a ranking. Teams will be ranked 1-10. The top 6 teams automatically move on to the final 8 and the other 4 teams will face off in a 1 vs 1 PLAY IN battle (7th vs 10th, 8th vs 9th) to see which two also will advance to the final 8.

Once the final 8 is reached, teams will be placed in a bracket and face off in a knock out style 1 vs 1 battle (1 vs Lower Ranked Play-in advancer, 2 vs Higher Ranked Play-in advancer, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5)

One team will emerge victorious from the bracket and be named Epicmafia's Greatest Debate Team!

http://pastebin.com/SCFgmCpg Rutab & xJuicy

http://pastebin.com/812SHLbC Tatami and Sincerely

http://pastebin.com/ibsV9Hkc Poser and Tartosis

http://pastebin.com/sjTU6sJt Stiffy&schutz

http://pastebin.com/VXED8hDe Arcbel and thecolonel

http://pastebin.com/jsJzvasJ Pamda and Xero

http://pastebin.com/EJM4yyc1 Blister and SweetnKind

http://pastebin.com/gKmvDkHN Bebop and Ponylove

http://pastebin.com/Q9gS842E Jack and Sims

3 TEAMS STILL HAVEN'T TURNED IN AND THEY WILL BE KEPT MUTED UNTIL THEY SUBMIT A SUBMISSION

thecolonel
about 8 years

xJuicy says


xJuicy says

I find this hard to believe based on the blatant contradiction shown within your argument. Even if there was a hint of truth in you words, his behaviour off-site is meaningless when he doesn't replicate it here.


You repeatedly state the boring cliche of "he's a changed man" yet where is the evidence? Not even evidence, just even a hint that this is remotely true? He bypasses and commits the same offences, arguably even on a larger scale.

You might be able to make an argument about HC but what's the excuse for constant bigotry and discrimination?


Why does there need to be an excuse for bigotry or discrimination? This isn't a safe space. Mafia is a social game. Being exposed to a variety of viewpoints (including bigotry) promotes critical thinking and a better understanding of the world. You have to consider why someone is wrong. If you actually think vilden is ableist or whatever then call him out on it. Tell him why he's a racist heteronormative shitlord. Don't hide behind some sort of thinly veiled character assassination he can't respond to. If you're right he'll be ostracized and you won't need to ban him.
poser
about 8 years
The difference between Vilden and his enemies is that only one has actually suffered consequences while the others are free to continue on this website, slandering him, running his name through the mud and then taking a giant WHIZ on it. So he's obviously upset here. This isn't "This is unfair and I'm salty" upset. This is someone who has hurt feelings about people on this site, genuinely, yet the offenders see no punishment.. unlike others who report for HC/harassment without truly feeling a shred of offendedness. So then obviously the site is flawed because I can guarantee you some of the reports on Vilden were done out of bias and not real offense taken. Just because he's "rude" doesn't mean he's also made of steel. He can take plenty, yet when his personal line is crossed nobody is there to aid the situation.

He is different. The reason he makes any offensive usernames is purely due to the reason above, it's not as if he just *can't help* but to slur, etc.. He has plenty of self control, if things were done right he would never feel the need to continue being offensive but considering the major person who offended him gets to freely harass him, he wants at least some closure in this situation and I believe that accusing him of being a stalker is quite literally overstepping your epicmafia boundaries. Would upset anybody IMO. Where is the evidence that you are a changed man? Not much. Rather, where is the evidence of previous admins exuding behavior of physical violence IRL - that they are different? There is none.
xJuicy
about 8 years

xJuicy says

I find this hard to believe based on the blatant contradiction shown within your argument. Even if there was a hint of truth in you words, his behaviour off-site is meaningless when he doesn't replicate it here.


You repeatedly state the boring cliche of "he's a changed man" yet where is the evidence? Not even evidence, just even a hint that this is remotely true? He bypasses and commits the same offences, arguably even on a larger scale.

You might be able to make an argument about HC but what's the excuse for constant bigotry and discrimination?
poser
about 8 years
I've been fighting for equal rights among users for years. This is blatant bias against Vilden. People say "he always does this he deserves HC even when it's only minimal and would usually be noted" as they give him violations. There are no.pitchforks because hes not like Blister who AtEs about being different. Y'all don't even know him he's a changed man.
poser
about 8 years
At least Hitler wasn't banned from Germany.
deletedabout 8 years

poser says

You people turn everything into dust.


White supremacist rose brings the group debate to hitler again. Is she using this forum to push a hidden agenda?
thecolonel
about 8 years

thecolonel says


xJuicy says

Technically it shouldn't say *stay* unbanned.


If you had read Team Prussian Blue's second point you would understand why you're wrong. You're dead wrong. vilden was banned of his own volition and he will be unbanned of his own volition. I don't know whether vilden is currently banned and neither do you. If vilden wants to be unbanned at this moment then he's unbanned. If he wants to be banned then he's banned. You should understand your opponents' arguments before you speak up. You make yourself look like a spoiled kid yelling out at a dinner party that his feces turned a darker shade of green today.


I probably need to give an example of this since Rutab and xDumbassWatermelonFace are writing it off as "trolling."

vilden has multiple bypassing accounts. I know three of them. He probably has more. He's active in competitive games. He has an established high-point account set up from before he was banned. This means that he is currently unbanned.
poser
about 8 years
If Vilden tied his shoes his laces would turn to gold. You people turn everything into dust. He's the winner because hes not on epicmafia unlike us.
deletedabout 8 years
Let the record show that moderator poser cannot find a single scrap of evidence to prove that abc and vilden arent the same person
thecolonel
about 8 years

xJuicy says

@Tartosis/poser - you argue that vilden has contributed to the site in great ways but we have seen little evidence of this for quite some time. He may be a quality mafia player but he does little to nothing in encouraging others to embrace the competitive scene and improve as a player. He is derogatory to other players, insulting and unnecessary.


vilden is a winner. Winners tend to say what they mean and they tend to say what they mean. Saying that his attitude is "unnecessary" brings you down to Jeff's level. I don't think I need to tell you that Jeff is a complete loser. The best things in life are unnecessary. S.ex is unnecessary. Art is unnecessary. You aren't actually saying anything when you insult him for being rude to losers. It's just garbage coming out of your mouth. This goes back to what I was saying in the pastebin:

I wouldn't expect you to make a judgement on how you should tie your shoes without accepting your death as a probable outcome. You are an idiot in the worst sense of the word. Watching you debate is like watching a toddler wail two seconds before they're curb stomped. No one wants to hear this. No one wants to see this. It's disgusting.
poser
about 8 years
No. But the same thing can be said for arcbell and natstar. Therefore we must trust this.
deletedabout 8 years
Can you even provide proof that abc and vilden arent the same person?
poser
about 8 years
No. Hes petty because his logic is "others are unbanned and breaking the rules and yet here I am banned for not doing anything recently.. (LIE BTW)" AND THATS why he does it. Vilden does it for the well being of the site even if he was unbanned he would. There is no contradiction.
xJuicy
about 8 years

poser says

Still fighting for the right thing to be done even after getting booted off the site is the tell of somebody who cares about the site. abc only does it to be petty because he feels like it's unfair that he's banned but vilden is not a bad person.



poser says

He's only upset at the moment because he feels the treatment is uneven.


So, in one comment you say abc is petty because he feels his ban is unfair, and that's why he acts the way he does.

Then, you say vilden is acting like this because he feels his ban is unfair, but it's okay because really vilden is a nice, caring guy?

I find this hard to believe based on the blatant contradiction shown within your argument. Even if there was a hint of truth in you words, his behaviour off-site is meaningless when he doesn't replicate it here.
poser
about 8 years
The site owner has said there are plenty of Nazis in game. Therefore we even know that lucid has accepted the reality.
deletedabout 8 years

sweetnkind says

No matter how hard u try Hitler will never be in power again.



poser says

Still fighting for the right thing to be done


i rest my case
poser
about 8 years
If Dylan was banned for harassment this would have all worked out fine IMO considering that would mean Vilden isnt the only one who gets spanked. But of course Vilden is the only hateful human on epicmafia. Lmfao. Everyone else is an angel
poser
about 8 years
Still fighting for the right thing to be done even after getting booted off the site is the tell of somebody who cares about the site. abc only does it to be petty because he feels like it's unfair that he's banned but vilden is not a bad person. It's the vendetta that he has with these users that brings out the negativity IMO and I believe it's because both of them are wrong yet only he gets the worst of it. He is more than able to change and like I said he has went down intentionally in order to stay off the site but each time he's managed to come back, I suppose due to caring about the site the way he does. Most new players will not be a victim of HC by Vilden unless they targeted him relentlessly and I don't believe that's happened this far. This can also be said for anyone who just doesn't like being picked on and also sees little offense in slurs. The competitive scene has plenty of toxicity as it is. I really don't think his ingame play was that slurry and it only was bad when his enemies were there.
deletedabout 8 years
H E ' S D E A D
deletedabout 8 years

poser says

The reality is that he was actually upset when he made lynchthegays because he felt wronged about the unequal punishment between Jeff and dyl who he calls gay quite often.


The details of Jeff and dyl's torrid passionate love affair arent yours or vildens to make public. This isnt n@zi germany where u have to wear a patch that designates you exceedingly gay and open for business. No matter how hard u try Hitler will never be in power again. Why? Hes dead.
xJuicy
about 8 years
"other unbanned users have done much worse" yeah sure, but we covered that in our initial argument; he has shown no indication at changing his ways. The fact he clouds his intent by "outing banned users" doesn't hold water when you can say the same about abc.

Indeed, I am somewhat notorious for my HC violations and I too was banned. However, my ban was debatable at best and abusive at worst, as the admin who unbanned me can attest. I don't believe anyone here is arguing vilden should never have been banned to being with, are they?

There is a difference between generally throwing insults at someone in the heat of the game and outright bigotry. Moreover, making discriminatory accounts, repeatedly hating on homosexuals publicly and continuing this behaviour across the forums. Vilden has bypassed his suspension to do just this.

It is quite apparent that his open bigotry is not to deliberately be banned from the site. He made an account called LynchTheGays to literally bypass and harass other users. For clarification, this means he was already banned when he did this, so what was his objective here?

--

Of course, the majority of veteran competitive players will not be affected by his attitude and will tolerate it, but your argument states a need for more players in this scene. Most new players will not find this welcoming whatsoever and will be pushed away from playing more gold hearts if this is the impression their given of competitive mafia.

How is the fact "he's had a few great games of mafia this year that he's taken very seriously" mean anything in any context? I would even suggest, that if he's taking the game that seriously, he's probably unleashed his hateful attitude throughout those scenarios.
poser
about 8 years
Each time Vilden has went down recently it's because he gives himself up in order to stay off the site. Whether that's intentionally saying HC or bypassing. Yes other users "pretend" to change their ways and Vilden has actually made genuine attempts at that as well. However when others aren't trying to be so kind it gets difficult which refers me back to the unequal punishment.
poser
about 8 years
Not to mention Vilden was the most harmless catfish who never lead on any guy or emotionally involved them into his life nor did he cyber or fake nudes. Which has been done fifty thousand times on this site and while it may stick those people have also managed to come back to this site anyway.
poser
about 8 years
I also believe 100% that a lot of the HC Vilden got in the older days that lead to his initial ban would have got no Vio or a few notes because the rules were much tighter. One or two slurs is not given a violation nearly as much now depending on which slur and context.
poser
about 8 years
And rutab. The reality is that he was actually upset when he made lynchthegays because he felt wronged about the unequal punishment between Jeff and dyl who he calls gay quite often. I also don't think it's worth keeping him banned just because his natural character off site is more inclined to use slurs. That just says something out of many things about him but there are plenty of positives too.